qos: (Elphaba Writing  by elphie_chan)
[personal profile] qos
One of my ongoing fascinations in the area of spirituality and lore is the concept of the Divine/Sacrificial King. It touches my interests in theology, sovereignty, the hieros gamos, and more.

Gray had an unusual take on the subject that I wanted to post here "just because." My Buddhist friends may find this of particular interest, since to me it seems that he's talking about the bodhisattva nature/path.

This passage is from the chapter on Chesed, which is associated with Mercy and with the divine overflowing of abundance and generosity.


"We often think self-sacrifice is the greatest good we can imagine, but on a higher level it is even greater to remain expressed in self for the sake of other selves. The real sacrifice of a Divine King is not their death by crucifixion or other means, but their incarnation into a human body. Birth binds, and death liberates them from their self-accepted obligation. Strictly speaking, the Cross is the wrong is the wrong symbol to use for sacrifice. It should be the cradle. But then, we are looking at the whole Mystery upside down!"
(The Ladder of Lights, p. 137)


Without wanting to take anything away from the Mystery and meaning of the Crucifixion, I really like this perspective. Most of us are not going to be put in a situation where we're going to have to face dying for our beliefs -- but each and every day we have to choose what we're going to live for, and the manner of our living. For those of us who believe in reincarnation, this goes a step further to address the magnitude of the decision to reincarnate with an attitude of doing so in the service of others, when we could just as easily avoid the whole messy, often painful experience. Call it the bodhisattva path, call it living within and bringing about the Kingdom of God, it works out to the same thing: being devoted to the salvation/enlightenment/rising up of all, not just self.

I for one need that reminder on a regular basis.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-15 02:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malakhgabriel.livejournal.com
Very interesting passage. Reminds me of something I wrote about Christmas a few years ago (http://laotzuribbon.livejournal.com/19512.html).

It's taken me far longer to get to a point where I can appreciate the Crucifixion/Resurrection, and I still struggle with it. The incarnation, though, is something that really touches me deeply.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-15 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blessed-harlot.livejournal.com
What he said. The only way I was able to find any value in the story of the crucifixion was as the result of Christ's obedience to the incarnation meeting the stunted imaginations of the human community around him. This touches on why the fish is a much more meaningful symbol for me than the cross.

I'm wary of language of "obligation" around fleshly life, and of living for others. In general, sacrifice imagery tends to push personal buttons that aren't helpful to my psyche. But this is a very interesting idea. Thank you for posting on it.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-16 02:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qos.livejournal.com
This touches on why the fish is a much more meaningful symbol for me. . .

I'm trying to remember if I've heard or read this before, but I like it very much.

I think the key to the idea of the bodhisattva or sacred king -- in this model, anyway -- is that the 'sacrifice' is taken on freely, out of love. No one forces incarnation or demands it. And, as I posted later, on my other journal, this path isn't the only way a soul can help others after this life.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-16 02:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qos.livejournal.com
Thanks for providing the link. Over the years, my favorite title of Christ has become Emmanuel, God with us.

One of the best things about seminary was being exposed to a variety of christologies and soteriologies, and finding out that we don't have to consider the crucifixion as the most important element of Jesus' earthly existence, or even necessary for salvation.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-15 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coen.livejournal.com
In some cultures (Japanese culture comes to mind, but I think it is not the only one) dying is the highest price one can pay to repent for their mistakes.
This idea has been very popular in Europe too. But somehow, modern western culture sees it differently. The highest price one can pay to repent for their mistakes is to live and face their mistakes, and try to deal with it.

I am going to get away from the spiritual level and take it down to a more earthly level, if you don't mind.
In the netherlands, it used to be so that if someone made an important mistake at work, people wanted that person to quit, or be fired. Nowadays more people want the person who messed up to stay, and clean up their mess.
When the dutch government admitted that they messed up in the war in Sebrenica, all of the ministers quitted their job. The dutch people did not appreciate that at all. It was seen as a cowardly act. The ministers should have stayed after admitting their mistakes.

Quiting (or dying, which is the ultimate form of quiting) is no longer seen as an honourable punishment, but as an easy way out. The honourable thing is to stay and to clean up the mess.

Seeing things from this perspective, the cradle would indeed be a better symbol for Jesus' gift to mankind than the cross.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-16 02:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qos.livejournal.com
I think you raise an important point. While each situation would certainly need to be considered individually, overall I agree that it takes more courage and honor to live and to "clean up the mess" rather than to opt out through death.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-15 03:33 pm (UTC)
ext_35267: (Chakras)
From: [identity profile] wlotus.livejournal.com
That is an interesting perspective. I know that given the choice, I would *not* choose to be reincarnated back to this messy, frustrating existence. Should I be willing to make that choice? I don't know. But the idea that Christ's choice to be born is more inspiring than his choice to die is thought-provoking.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-16 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qos.livejournal.com
I certainly am not feeling inclined to return to this form of life!

I don't think that *should* is part of the issue. I think different choices are appropriate for different souls, based on their natures and where they are in their own existence. I don't think the idea is that some feel compelled to deny their own happiness and suffer for others, but that they do find their happiness and fulfillment in such a decision.

But I also believe there are more worlds and more kinds of existence than we can imagine now that will become options for us after we pass from this existence, and all kinds of honorable paths open to us.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-15 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sashajwolf.livejournal.com
My grandfather (who was not a Christian, but was interested in its ideas as the thoughtful, self-taught man he was) once told me he thought the Nativity was a very violent story, because the contrast between infinity and this world of limitations must have been so stark.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-16 02:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qos.livejournal.com
Indeed!
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-16 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qos.livejournal.com
because where the synergy lies, so goes the truth.

I think you're right. That's one of the reasons I find the study of comparative religion and simply listening to the stories of different people on different paths to be such rich and rewarding experiences.
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