Not That it Will Make Any Difference. . .
Dec. 3rd, 2004 06:21 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
qos. . . I sent this to president@whitehouse.gov
Mr. President:
I sincerely hope that the AP article published this morning is in error.
I am sincerely hoping it is not true that: "Evidence gained by torture can be used by the U.S. military in deciding whether to imprison a foreigner indefinitely at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as an enemy combatant, the government concedes. "
If it is true, I expect that you, an avowed Christian and the leader of a nation that should stand for the protection of basic human rights everywhere in the world, as well as "liberty and justice for all" will take strong measures to stop any torture being done by the US military -- at Guantanamo or anywhere else.
Like a lot of people, I've heard rumours over the years that our military has always engaged in torture, quietly, in secret. I don't know what appalls me more: that we do it at all, or that we have evidently fallen so low in our moral sensibilities that now there doesn't seem to be any qualms about admitting it publically, as if we are justified.
Mr. President, this is not justified. This is evil. Torturing people is wrong. You would be the first to object if anyone else were doing it, for any reason.
9-11-2001 does not make us exempt from the basic rules of human decency, much less the treaties and agreements we as a nation have committed to over the years to uphold human rights and justice.
This morning's report is a disgrace to the United States, and yet another black mark against our honor as a nation.
I hope you will use your authority to stop these abuses and uphold the principles of our nation. I don't care what any judge says. Detaining people without charges and without due process, and using torture to gain evidence violates the basic principles of our Constitution. And saying otherwise continues to erode whatever moral high ground we as a nation once possessed.
[Name, Address, Phone Number]
Mr. President:
I sincerely hope that the AP article published this morning is in error.
I am sincerely hoping it is not true that: "Evidence gained by torture can be used by the U.S. military in deciding whether to imprison a foreigner indefinitely at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as an enemy combatant, the government concedes. "
If it is true, I expect that you, an avowed Christian and the leader of a nation that should stand for the protection of basic human rights everywhere in the world, as well as "liberty and justice for all" will take strong measures to stop any torture being done by the US military -- at Guantanamo or anywhere else.
Like a lot of people, I've heard rumours over the years that our military has always engaged in torture, quietly, in secret. I don't know what appalls me more: that we do it at all, or that we have evidently fallen so low in our moral sensibilities that now there doesn't seem to be any qualms about admitting it publically, as if we are justified.
Mr. President, this is not justified. This is evil. Torturing people is wrong. You would be the first to object if anyone else were doing it, for any reason.
9-11-2001 does not make us exempt from the basic rules of human decency, much less the treaties and agreements we as a nation have committed to over the years to uphold human rights and justice.
This morning's report is a disgrace to the United States, and yet another black mark against our honor as a nation.
I hope you will use your authority to stop these abuses and uphold the principles of our nation. I don't care what any judge says. Detaining people without charges and without due process, and using torture to gain evidence violates the basic principles of our Constitution. And saying otherwise continues to erode whatever moral high ground we as a nation once possessed.
[Name, Address, Phone Number]
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Unfortunatly.......
Date: 2004-12-03 12:56 pm (UTC)What some might consider torture, others might consider an expeditious method of motivating an unwilling subject to provide life-saving information.
Is sleep deprivation torture? What about keeping someone in darkness for long periods of time?
Are these different from bamboo splinters and hot pokers?
And is what is being gained worth the pain suffered by one individual?
If "torture" saved lives, is it justified?
As I am the first to admit, it's easy to argue philosophy when one is not neck deep in the real situation.
But I also have the benefit of a sibling who has now served two tours in Iraq. It certainly adds perspective.
I wish torture was never defensible. But I also find it hard to argue with it's very pragmatic application in certain situations.
BTW, I enjoy reading your LJ. You're one of more thoughtful individuals I come across in here.
=D
Re: Unfortunatly.......
Date: 2004-12-03 08:13 pm (UTC)I wish torture was never defensible. But I also find it hard to argue with it's very pragmatic application in certain situations.
There is a part of me that understands what you are saying. But there is also the part of me that knows that aside from the humanitarian value of not allowing torture to be admissable as evidence, there are any number of experts who testify (and they have opponents and dissenters, I am sure) that information gained through torture is usually far less reliable.
I pray that your sibling will return home safely.
Re: Unfortunatly.......
Date: 2004-12-06 11:57 am (UTC)The pleasure is mine. I often read without commenting. It doesn't make me enjoy your thoughts any less.
Any information given by the enemy (spies, soldiers, etc.) can be faulty be it voluntary or otherwise. Such is the nature of "intelligence".
Look at the WMDs that were never there? Some think GW lied. Given that Saddam was playing a bit of bluff with Iran makes me think that he played the game to well and was thought to be more dangerous than he was.
Without going into distasteful details, torture has advanced through the years. Modern methods are more designed towards breaking down the client's mental/emotional barriers so that they are more likely to tell the "truth" (at least what they believe to be the truth). The Israelis are consider among the best in the world (there is even a manual they have loaned the US a decade ago on the subject).
This information is often compared to other info sources and cross-referenced. From there decisions are based on the best info possible. Which doesn't mean it's 100 percent accurate.
Such is the game that nations have played for centuries.
National security has a dark side to it. At least we don't have buses blowing up in our streets. Yet.
Perhaps it is because other nations don't want to be the next Iraq. Libya certainly confessed its nuclear program very promptly after the US invaded Iraq.
Distasteful. But necessary in some minds.
Such is the grey-shaded world in which we live.