![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
Answers for Amqu
A couple of weeks ago, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
amqu responded to my Old Time Religion post with several challenging questions. My spiritual path has a lot of ambiguity in it, and when faced with her very good but hard-to-answer questions, the Queen of Swords went into a panic. After all, if I couldn’t answer them all, immediately, in a compelling manner that would convince her that my faith and my reason were sound, there was something wrong with me and my path, right?!?!
When we rational types get irrational, we go all the way.
It took me several days to get up my courage to re-read her questions. And I still couldn’t answer them quickly. It took a conversation with both my spiritual director and my priestess teacher to talk myself around to the point of seeing her questions as a valuable opportunity to clarify certain topics in my own mind, and accept that fact that due to the differences in our beliefs, it’s entirely possible that the answers that work for me might not be valid for her. And that’s okay. Neitheramqu nor I have ever asked or expected the other to change her beliefs because they are different from our own.
So, after a two week delay, here are my answers to her questions.
Quotes from my original entry are in italics.amqu’s questions are in bold. My answers are in plain type.
Feel free to jump in and join the discussion.
Do we not have the right to a spirituality that is grounded in and responsive to our own time, just as our forebears' was grounded in and responsive to their own?
Amqu: It depends. Is the religion about you or about the god?
I think that religion (in this context) is about the relationship between humanity and God. Setting aside for a moment the question of whether or not the Divine changes over time, it’s clear that human society has changed. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that new practices can be just as valid or pleasing to the Divine as old ones.
Like Heidhrun, I worship and call on Freyja -- but if I believed it was important that I do so in strict accordance with the way my ancestors called on Her early in the first millennium, I wouldn't bother. In fact, the most important elements of my observances are not found in any saga or artifact I'm aware of. But I've felt Her presence and power nonetheless, and I am not going to give up those rites just because they
are not historically based.
Amqu: Do you believe Freyja is an actual person? Or do you consider her a manifestation of a general free-floating "divine"?
This question was particularly challenging to me. I’ve struggled a great deal over the years (since 1985) with what I believe about how much a person or persons the Divine is, and had pretty much shifted that particular question to the “impossible to know for sure” column. My working answer, the one that fits with my experience, is that the Divine can and does manifest to humanity in a variety of recognizable individual beings. Whether these beings are, in fact, distinct individuals who share the name basic nature (divinity) or whether they are different aspects of the One is beyond my ability to answer.
I do know this: that the more individualized my experience of the Divine is, the richer and more satisfying my spiritual life is. When I try to relate to the Divine as the One, or the Almighty Creator, I get lost in the vastness. The rich spirituality of my childhood and young adult years was all about my relationship with Jesus. God wasn’t a distant king or judge or savior, God was Jesus who was my loving friend, who shared my daily life with me, encouraged me, and whose good opinion I wanted to keep.
Do I struggle with the possibility that I’ve deluded myself and am “working with” figments of my very strong imagination? Sometimes, yes. Do I wonder sometimes if I’ve lost touch with the “true God” and am settling for spirits of another order? It’s crossed my mind.
And so I fall back on the principles of my early Christian formation and ask “What are the fruits of this work?” Over the past few months, those fruits are increased compassion, greater peace, more patience, healing. My conclusion: whatever the nature of the beings with which I am associating, I seem to be moving in a direction recognizable to most spiritual paths as being “the right way.”
If, on the other hand, my practices were accompanied by an increase in arrogance, sense of entitlement, anger, selfishness, and etc. then there would be good reason to doubt the nature of my allies.
Which perhaps doesn’t specifically answer Amqu’s question in the definite way it was phrased, but does explain why it’s not a question I worry about most of the time.
Amqu: Do you think Freyja is satisfied with a simple acknowledgment of her existence, or do you think she is particular in how she is worshiped?
She seems satisfied. I think that sincere intention counts for a great deal. Bear in mind that the practices to which I alluded may not be historically based, but they do involve the areas of her interest and authority (sexuality and pleasure, sacred marriage). At the same time, I have done some research recently, and am looking forward to performing my first blot for her, which is a traditional Heathen ritual, attested to in the Sagas.
One (not the only) standard is how what they've experienced fits with revelations which have been recorded and preserved through tradition.
Amqu: If it fits, what does it mean? If it doesn't fit, what does it mean?
There are some mystical experiences which are attested to widely by the spiritual literature of more than one path: the dark night of the soul, union, certain types of images. If a person came to me and talked about those experiences, I could reassure them that it seemed they were experiencing something that is a common element of spiritual practice. Given their own path, are the images or messages consistent with that path?
If it doesn’t fit. . . then we dig deeper, and we test for the fruits that I referenced above. How do these experiences or images make her feel? What would be the consequence of taking them seriously and following them? Do they lead to the light or toward darkness?
The sifting of authentic revelation from the culturally relative (or personally expedient) is, in my opinion, a major issue in modern spirituality.
Amqu: How can you tell? How are we to judge what is authentic revelation and cultural relativity? Is it completely subjective? What is the sifting criteria?
I wish there was a single answer that everyone agreed to on this. Personally, I believe that movements that are in line with compassion, justice, equality, and dignity are in line with the fundamental values of the Divine.
...how do you balance historical fidelity and preservation with modern challenges? Where and how do you draw the line between what you keep and what you discard from the past?
I accept the fact that human nature doesn't change. The Bible was written for people just like me. However, I don't hold with human tradition, so I question all historic Christian beliefs. If it doesn't measure up to a Biblical standard, it goes the way of the dodo. In the same manner, if current cultural ideas contradict the Biblical standard, they also get jettisoned.
To which I guess my question is: How do you make the distinction between “historic Christian beliefs” and “Biblical standard”?
amqu responded to my Old Time Religion post with several challenging questions. My spiritual path has a lot of ambiguity in it, and when faced with her very good but hard-to-answer questions, the Queen of Swords went into a panic. After all, if I couldn’t answer them all, immediately, in a compelling manner that would convince her that my faith and my reason were sound, there was something wrong with me and my path, right?!?!When we rational types get irrational, we go all the way.
It took me several days to get up my courage to re-read her questions. And I still couldn’t answer them quickly. It took a conversation with both my spiritual director and my priestess teacher to talk myself around to the point of seeing her questions as a valuable opportunity to clarify certain topics in my own mind, and accept that fact that due to the differences in our beliefs, it’s entirely possible that the answers that work for me might not be valid for her. And that’s okay. Neither
amqu nor I have ever asked or expected the other to change her beliefs because they are different from our own. So, after a two week delay, here are my answers to her questions.
Quotes from my original entry are in italics.
amqu’s questions are in bold. My answers are in plain type.Feel free to jump in and join the discussion.
Do we not have the right to a spirituality that is grounded in and responsive to our own time, just as our forebears' was grounded in and responsive to their own?
Amqu: It depends. Is the religion about you or about the god?
I think that religion (in this context) is about the relationship between humanity and God. Setting aside for a moment the question of whether or not the Divine changes over time, it’s clear that human society has changed. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that new practices can be just as valid or pleasing to the Divine as old ones.
Like Heidhrun, I worship and call on Freyja -- but if I believed it was important that I do so in strict accordance with the way my ancestors called on Her early in the first millennium, I wouldn't bother. In fact, the most important elements of my observances are not found in any saga or artifact I'm aware of. But I've felt Her presence and power nonetheless, and I am not going to give up those rites just because they
are not historically based.
Amqu: Do you believe Freyja is an actual person? Or do you consider her a manifestation of a general free-floating "divine"?
This question was particularly challenging to me. I’ve struggled a great deal over the years (since 1985) with what I believe about how much a person or persons the Divine is, and had pretty much shifted that particular question to the “impossible to know for sure” column. My working answer, the one that fits with my experience, is that the Divine can and does manifest to humanity in a variety of recognizable individual beings. Whether these beings are, in fact, distinct individuals who share the name basic nature (divinity) or whether they are different aspects of the One is beyond my ability to answer.
I do know this: that the more individualized my experience of the Divine is, the richer and more satisfying my spiritual life is. When I try to relate to the Divine as the One, or the Almighty Creator, I get lost in the vastness. The rich spirituality of my childhood and young adult years was all about my relationship with Jesus. God wasn’t a distant king or judge or savior, God was Jesus who was my loving friend, who shared my daily life with me, encouraged me, and whose good opinion I wanted to keep.
Do I struggle with the possibility that I’ve deluded myself and am “working with” figments of my very strong imagination? Sometimes, yes. Do I wonder sometimes if I’ve lost touch with the “true God” and am settling for spirits of another order? It’s crossed my mind.
And so I fall back on the principles of my early Christian formation and ask “What are the fruits of this work?” Over the past few months, those fruits are increased compassion, greater peace, more patience, healing. My conclusion: whatever the nature of the beings with which I am associating, I seem to be moving in a direction recognizable to most spiritual paths as being “the right way.”
If, on the other hand, my practices were accompanied by an increase in arrogance, sense of entitlement, anger, selfishness, and etc. then there would be good reason to doubt the nature of my allies.
Which perhaps doesn’t specifically answer Amqu’s question in the definite way it was phrased, but does explain why it’s not a question I worry about most of the time.
Amqu: Do you think Freyja is satisfied with a simple acknowledgment of her existence, or do you think she is particular in how she is worshiped?
She seems satisfied. I think that sincere intention counts for a great deal. Bear in mind that the practices to which I alluded may not be historically based, but they do involve the areas of her interest and authority (sexuality and pleasure, sacred marriage). At the same time, I have done some research recently, and am looking forward to performing my first blot for her, which is a traditional Heathen ritual, attested to in the Sagas.
One (not the only) standard is how what they've experienced fits with revelations which have been recorded and preserved through tradition.
Amqu: If it fits, what does it mean? If it doesn't fit, what does it mean?
There are some mystical experiences which are attested to widely by the spiritual literature of more than one path: the dark night of the soul, union, certain types of images. If a person came to me and talked about those experiences, I could reassure them that it seemed they were experiencing something that is a common element of spiritual practice. Given their own path, are the images or messages consistent with that path?
If it doesn’t fit. . . then we dig deeper, and we test for the fruits that I referenced above. How do these experiences or images make her feel? What would be the consequence of taking them seriously and following them? Do they lead to the light or toward darkness?
The sifting of authentic revelation from the culturally relative (or personally expedient) is, in my opinion, a major issue in modern spirituality.
Amqu: How can you tell? How are we to judge what is authentic revelation and cultural relativity? Is it completely subjective? What is the sifting criteria?
I wish there was a single answer that everyone agreed to on this. Personally, I believe that movements that are in line with compassion, justice, equality, and dignity are in line with the fundamental values of the Divine.
...how do you balance historical fidelity and preservation with modern challenges? Where and how do you draw the line between what you keep and what you discard from the past?
I accept the fact that human nature doesn't change. The Bible was written for people just like me. However, I don't hold with human tradition, so I question all historic Christian beliefs. If it doesn't measure up to a Biblical standard, it goes the way of the dodo. In the same manner, if current cultural ideas contradict the Biblical standard, they also get jettisoned.
To which I guess my question is: How do you make the distinction between “historic Christian beliefs” and “Biblical standard”?